Go back to the ShoesFests page – Jump to stats

ShoesFest - #shoes logs for ShoesDay 2

14:08: < ashbb> MadX: Hi! ShoesFest 2nd is starting?
14:08: < Bluebie> ashbb: ^_^
14:08: < Bluebie> technically started, _why is running late, which he said on the mailing list
14:10: < ashbb> Oh, yeah. Thx. I was out alday. I'm going to check my inbox form now.
14:11: < brainopia> how to change a fill color of existing rectangle?
14:12: < Bluebie> I don't know that you can..
14:12: < Bluebie> I think it's something yet to be added
14:12: < MadX`> brainopia: @rect.style(:fill, color) maybe
14:13: < brainopia> yeah, it's not working =(
14:13: < eki_> as of last shoesfest, it wasn't possible to change the color of a shape (fill or stroke)
14:13: < MadX`> ok, sorry
14:13: < MadX`> maybe you could remove & redraw it ,
14:14: < MadX`> ?
14:14: < eki_> you have to redraw it
14:15: < MadX`> I'll be back later, I wish you all a great ShoesFest start :D
14:16: < brainopia> if i draw on top of existing rectangle a new rectangle, will old rectangle still spend system resources?
14:17: < eki_> that I don't know, I would guess at least a little, since it could be moved out from under the new shape?
14:19: < brainopia> eki_: so it will probably leak if i will draw a new rectangles on top of old ones very often?
14:23: < eki_> I don't know... I would assume that if it does, it would be fixed so that it doesn't...
14:23: < eki_> at least within a clear block, which is, I think, where you should be doing the redrawing...
14:24: < eki_> I really haven't looked into what shoes does in that case
14:26: < ashbb> Shoes.app do @r = rect 0, 0, 10, 10; clear {@r.replace rect 100, 100, 10, 10} end
14:27: < ashbb> I think @r is same object. So old rect has not system resources.
14:31: < ashbb> I leave the table a little. I'll be back soon. Enjoy ShoesFest!
14:34: < brainopia> http://gist.github.com/2431 can you take a look at the second sample
14:35: < brainopia> is it expected behavior of shoes or does it need to be fixed?
14:35: < brainopia> ashbb: thx for advise
14:40: < brainopia> so what do you think about http://gist.github.com/2431?
14:40: < optikalmouse> I just realized that gist is like pastebin heh
14:42: < brainopia> optikalmouse: ;)
14:57: < ashbb> brainopia: I think it is expected behavior. ;-)
14:58: < brainopia> ashbb: thx again =)
14:58: < ashbb> What do you expect?
14:58: < brainopia> ashbb: just a change of flow background, but rectangle remains untouched
14:59: < brainopia> ashbb: it's from one point of view very logical
14:59: < brainopia> ashbb: but from another view, it's logical that background method repaint on top
15:00: < Bluebie> intuition > logic
15:00: < Bluebie> i guess backgrounds always go in to the back of the stack
15:00: < Bluebie> if you want on top, rect
15:01: < brainopia> Bluebie: but backround repaints on top already without any need to use rect
15:01: < brainopia> Bluebie: that's what was strange for me at first =)
15:01: < ChrisColon> I don't know how Shoes implements this but maybe it's like this to save resources. Every stack has one drawing surface, so a background paints over everything in this stack. If it should draw in the background every time, you'd need a second drawing surface, if this is how Shoes does it, I have no clue
15:01: < Bluebie> ooh
15:02: < Bluebie> no ChrisColon, a background is an object
15:02: < Bluebie> in an array
15:02: < Bluebie> just like buttons and stuff
15:02: < Bluebie> it just so happens to paint the whole area while consuming none of the space, is all
15:03: < ashbb> Yes, Bluebie. But every stack/flow is independent.
15:03: < Bluebie> indeededly ^_^
15:03: < ChrisColon> Bluebie: I meant the actual implementation with the GUI toolkits (GTK, Cocoa, whatever windows uses) not the Ruby code
15:03: < Bluebie> um
15:04: < ChrisColon> But like I said, I have no idea. I never took a look at the Shoes source :)
15:06: < brainopia> i guess _why will be a judge at this matter :P
15:06: < Bluebie> indubitably
15:23: < ashbb> brainopia: About your first question. Run this code: http://pastie.org/241004
15:23: < ashbb> Chang color when mouse hover/leave....
15:26: < brainopia> ashbb: hm, it looks like it leak - but i'll test it more thoroughly now
15:29: < ashbb> Oh, Doesn't it work well? It works well on my WindowXP and Shoes-0.r811
15:29: < ashbb> What do you use? Linux box or Mac?
15:44: < brainopia> ashbb: i was wrong, it doesn't leak
15:45: < ashbb> Does it work well?
15:47: < brainopia> ashbb: yeah, i just watched memory usage and it seemed to me that it increases limit, but as i check with http://pastie.org/241020 it's not
15:47: < brainopia> oops, not this code =)
15:48: < brainopia> but in any case it's ok =)
16:42: < ashbb> Sorry, I'm back now.
16:42: < ashbb> Hi anteaya!
16:43: < ashbb> Hi Kuremmu!
16:43: < kuremmu> howdy, ashbb
16:45: < ejmiller> Has anyone tried nesting animations?
16:46: < ashbb> Oh,....no. :-P
16:46: < ashbb> Do you have any example code?
16:47: < optikalmouse> how does shoes determine the default size for a window?
16:47: < optikalmouse> http://hackety.org/press/nks-13.html like in the Paragraph examples with breadsticks, it seems to wrap at 32 characters/columns
16:47: < anteaya> hey ashbb
16:48: < ejmiller> I tried wrapping the widget from Bluebie's epony example last week in an animation but didn't get far
16:48: < anteaya> ashbb: i am lurking but probably won't be that active today, I am working toward a deadline and I have a two thick interviews to transcribe for the article. Hope all goes well.
16:48: < ashbb> brainopia: Do you expect http://pastie.org/241020 's behavior like the following?
16:49: < optikalmouse> oh jeez, I'm an idiot.
16:49: < optikalmouse> I just tried that example and it doesn't automatically resize the window
16:50: < ashbb> brainopia: See this: http://pastie.org/241059
16:51: < ashbb> anteaya: Sounds great! Okay. If you have time, sometimes join here. :)
16:52: < anteaya> ashbb: thanks for understanding and I will :D
16:52: < ashbb> :)
16:53: < ejmiller> The code I have uses a bunch of image files - I'll try to put together a simple stand alone nested animation sample at lunch and ask for help then
16:57: < ashbb> ejmiller: Thx. I'm waiting your sample. Have a good lunch. :)
16:58: < eki_> it looks to me like oval is not drawing correctly on Linux (and maybe elsewhere?)... radius doesn't seem right... if I draw an oval inside a rect, where the radius is half the width of the rect, it doesn't come close to filling the rect...
16:58: < eki_> anyone seen similar behavior?
17:00: < ashbb> optikalmouse: Is your above problem solved?
17:01: < brainopia> ashbb: yep, you're right
17:01: < brainopia> ashbb: sorry, for a long answer
17:01: < brainopia> anteaya: ;)
17:01: < optikalmouse> ashbb: yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what the default size of a shoes window is heh
17:02: < anteaya> brainopia, heyya
17:02: < brainopia> anteaya: heya =)
17:02: < anteaya> brainopia, how are you?
17:02: < eki_> example: http://pastie.org/241075
17:02: < anteaya> brainopia, been a long time
17:02: < brainopia> anteaya: yeah, it's been a long time
17:02: < brainopia> anteaya: i found myself a job =)
17:02: < brainopia> anteaya: and how are you?
17:02: < anteaya> brainopia, yaya good for you
17:03: < anteaya> brainopia, happy and tired,
17:03: < anteaya> brainopia, rubyfringe was fatastic and i am writing an article for a new magazine called The Rubyist
17:03: < brainopia> anteaya: wow, big congrats!
17:03: < anteaya> comes out next month at Ruby Hoedown
17:03: < brainopia> anteaya: i hope to read it =)
17:04: < anteaya> brainopia, yeah, so I am busy transribing interviews right now,
17:04: < anteaya> that would be great
17:04: < brainopia> anteaya: oh, sorry for a distraction :P
17:04: < anteaya> oh and anybody knows how I can get a hold of _why to interview him, don't be shy pinging me
17:04: < anteaya> brainopia, always a pleasure my friend :
17:04: < anteaya> :D
17:04: < brainopia> :D
17:05: < ashbb> eki_: Do you mean... radius is not radius. it seems like diameter. ?
17:05: < anteaya> brainopia, but I will go silent once again for a little while
17:05: < brainopia> anteaya: okey-dokey ;)
17:05: < anteaya> brainopia, yeach
17:05: < anteaya> :D
17:05: < ashbb> anteaya: Do you interviwe to _why?
17:06: < ashbb> Oops, Will you interview to _why?
17:08: < anteaya> ashbb: I would love to interview _why
17:08: < anteaya> ashbb: but i don't know him and I don't really know the best way to get a hold of him to interview him
17:09: < anteaya> ashbb: but I sure would like to
17:09: < ashbb> I'm looking forward the article that anyeaya interview to _why. So much!
17:10: < batasrki> anteaya: when you figure out how to get a hold of him, let the rest of us know
17:10: < anteaya> batasrki, you got it
17:11: < ashbb> Okay. When _why appear in this channel, let's ask him!
17:11: < anteaya> ashbb: ping me when it happens
17:11: < ashbb> okay!
17:11: * anteaya returns to transcribing
17:18: < eki_> ashbb, yes it looks like the radius is being halved
17:23: < ashbb> eki_: Yes. Same as on my WindowsXP. See http://pastie.org/241093
17:24: < ashbb> eki_: Shoes manual say: oval(top, left, radius)
17:26: < ashbb> eki_: but in the case of http://pastie.org/241093 radius = 50, not 100
17:27: < ashbb> eki_: So maybe bug. Which is correct, I don't know, though.... :)
17:29: < eki_> true, it's very easy to work around, just the manual or code need to be updated to be consistent : ))
17:30: < kuremmu> speaking of the manual, has anyone else had toruble with it crashing when you attempt a search?
17:30: < ashbb> eki_: yes. i think so, too.
17:32: < ashbb> kuremmu: Oh,.... I've not met that yet... Could you show us any sample search term or something?
17:37: < kuremmu> it doesn't seem consistent on any given term. sometimes it crashes as soon as i bring up search before i can even focus the edit box
17:39: < ashbb> Umm... What do you use? Windows? Shoes revision?
17:42: < kuremmu> winxp r811
17:44: < ashbb> Oh, the same as mine....umm... Anyone who had the same accident?
17:52: < gdp> #sneakers
17:53: < optikalmouse> sneakers?
17:53: < Spads> #jackboots
17:54: < optikalmouse> #sandals
17:54: < optikalmouse> (soon enough.)
18:18: < ixx> greetings
18:18: < optikalmouse> afternoon
18:18: < ixx> good morning :)
18:18: < maplealmond> Morning
18:19: < ashbb> Morning? where are you from? :)
18:19: < optikalmouse> for para. does it string the paragraph text together with a space?
18:19: < optikalmouse> like: para "hello", "world"?
18:19: < ixx> Austin, TX, US
18:19: < maplealmond> I have no experience with Shoes, before I begin trying it out, I was wondering if someone could answer me a quick question. I need the end user to be able to find and select files. Does Shoes wrap around the native OS call or something?
18:20: < ixx> at Jelly <http://wiki.workatjelly.com/>
18:22: < brainopia> maplealmond: yep
18:22: < maplealmond> Great. Now I need to figure out how, but I have the docs for that.
18:25: < kuremmu> optikalmouse no, it runs them together: helloworld
18:25: < optikalmouse> ah ok
18:25: < optikalmouse> I was under the impression from the Nobody Knows Shoes book that it added spaces
18:27: < kuremmu> optikalmouse, it may have done once, but i just tried it in r811 and got that result
18:27: < kuremmu> maplealmond look up ask_open_file in the built in manual (shoes -m)
18:30: < maplealmond> Oh shiny
18:30: < maplealmond> Thanks guys!
18:31: < ixx> shiny... awesome :)
18:31: < ixx> ff is great
18:31: < kuremmu> Did anyone read Jay Fields' latest post? He redid part of _why's Dwemthy's Array to replace some of the metamagic with module extension. I don't see any big improvement myself, but it's interesting.
18:33: < optikalmouse> module extension meaning he opened the class and added methods?
18:33: < kuremmu> does anyone know if it is possible (yet?) to rotate a gradient?
18:34: < dwtorres> Morning everybody. I'm using build r868 and for some reason It will not let me use: require 'rss/1.0'
18:34: < dwtorres> require 'rss/2.0' anyone have any idea why? I get an error in the console "no such file to load -- rss/1.0. Never had this happen before
18:34: < maplealmond> ixx: You know, I use shiny now without even thinking about it as firefly. Everyone in my circle of friends does.
18:35: < kuremmu> i am no master rubyist, but it seems he adds the methods to the objects themselves, not the classes. i need to give the article a closer reading to be sure
18:35: < ixx> maplealmond: its a great term. love to hear it used
18:36: < wmoxam> kuremmu: Have you seen 'ick'? You might it interesting ..
18:36: < wmoxam> kuremmu: http://ick.rubyforge.org/inside.html
18:40: < kuremmu> wmoxam, wuth the guards and maybes, at a quick skim it looks like the author is haskellizing ruby, making it more of a functional language. could be pretty handy, especially for someone with functional language background
18:41: < wmoxam> kuremmu: I agree
18:41: < wmoxam> kuremmu: the author has done a few other cool hacks
18:41: < wmoxam> kuremmu: http://rewrite.rubyforge.org/
18:41: < kuremmu> rewrite = macros maybe?
18:42: < wmoxam> kuremmu: rewrite allows you to 'open' and extend a class in a limited scope
18:42: < kuremmu> hmm
18:42: < tamalw> dwtorres: Shoes is it's own runtime, so it has it's own gems
18:42: < wmoxam> kuremmu: so if you want to modify the behavior of String, you can do it so it doesn't affect classes upstream
18:43: < kuremmu> handy
18:43: < wmoxam> kuremmu: especially for gems
18:43: < tamalw> it cannot access the same gems that your vanilla ruby install can. Now you can unpack gems in the same directory as your shoes app, or use Hpricot (included with shoes) to parse RSS feeds.
18:43: < tamalw> That is what I have done in the past
18:43: < dwtorres> tamalw: Which is why I am at a loss why it can't call ruby's built in rss
18:45: < kuremmu> dwtorres, maybe a ddumb question but are you using Shoes.setup?
18:45: < dwtorres> I opened up shoes and rss.rb is not missing from the built in ruby dist
18:45: < dwtorres> Its not an external gem I want I want ruby's rss
18:45: < tamalw> dwtorres: Zigactly. Last shoesfest I made this: http://shoes.yapok.org/apps/funnies.rb; it should work for you
18:46: < tamalw> FWIW, I couldn't get it to work
18:46: < tamalw> (RSS in the standard library)
18:46: < dwtorres> Checking it out right now, thanks tamalw
18:46: < dwtorres> It worked for a previous build, ust don't know what changed
18:54: < maplealmond> Wait, wait, WAIT... I'm looking at visit()
18:55: < maplealmond> Does this mean I can get the shoes client to load an app over the internet?
19:04: < optikalmouse> maplealmond: wait a second now.
19:04: < optikalmouse> that sounds exciting
19:08: < maplealmond> It does. Im wondering if I understand correctly
19:09: < ixx> funnies.rb needs links to the comic strip sites :)
19:09: < ixx> like it though
19:11: < st23am> expected the channel to be more lively today. Isnt it shoefest today?
19:14: < optikalmouse> yeah it is!
19:15: < optikalmouse> ...
19:15: < optikalmouse> not much of a party heh
19:15: * tamalw takes off clothes and goes streaking
19:15: < tamalw> better? :P
19:16: < optikalmouse> a little
19:16: < optikalmouse> put em back on though :p
19:16: < optikalmouse> I'm not sure what to create though
19:17: < optikalmouse> I'm still looking at the little examples
19:21: < st23am> im downloading linux build now
19:21: < st23am> last time I tried this it was epic failz
19:21: < ejmiller> Hi, I'm working on a nested animation and could use some advice. It works - sorta but is pretty rough. See http://pastie.org/241184
19:23: < tamalw> Is there a list of colors somewhere?
19:23: < optikalmouse> YES
19:23: < optikalmouse> it's in the manual
19:23: < optikalmouse> I think it follows the W3C CSS colours actually
19:23: < tamalw> I is searching without luck
19:23: < optikalmouse> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#svg-color
19:24: < tamalw> thanks
19:31: < kuremmu> i'm having a little problem extracting functions. when i try to move the tmv function outside of the Shoes.qpp loop, things won't work. putting it in a class subbed from Shoes doesn't help. seems to have to do with containing Shoes code and not just standard ruby. snippet: http://gist.github.com/2479
19:32: < wmoxam> yay, snakes and ladders!
19:33: < kuremmu> very very early days on the prog. still trying to get the move token, etc right
19:35: < tamalw> kuremmu: http://gist.github.com/2480
19:36: < tamalw> I guess I should have tried it first
19:40: < eki_> kuremmu, you might try moving your code into a Widget... here's the sprite code I'm working on today as an example: http://github.com/eki/shoesfest/tree/master/sprite/sprite.rb
19:42: < st23am> is the linux install instructions in the manual or is that on a site somewhere?
19:44: < kuremmu> thanks, eki. haven't tried it yet but that looks like the way to go
19:47: < eki_> st23am, do you want to build from git or r811?
19:47: < st23am> git would be nice
19:47: < eki_> iirc:
19:48: < eki_> git clone git://github.com/why/shoes.git
19:48: < st23am> thanks
19:48: < eki_> cd shoes
19:48: < eki_> rake
19:48: < eki_> then add shoes/dist to your path... the 'shoes' binary will be in there
19:49: < eki_> if rake fails, you may be missing depenencies...
19:50: < st23am> rake aborted!
19:50: < st23am> Command failed with status (1): [gcc -I. -O -c -oshoes/image.o -I/usr/inclu...]
19:50: < st23am> rake aborted!
19:50: < st23am> Command failed with status (1): [gcc -I. -O -c -oshoes/image.o -I/usr/inclu...]
19:50: < st23am> opps sorry
19:50: < st23am> ah have to look for a depenency list
19:53: < ashbb> st23am: Have you looked at this: http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/shoes/wiki/DownloadShoes
19:58: < st23am> ashbb: no I had not thank you
19:58: < kuremmu> why oh why no _why? that fix he was working on must be pretty messy.
20:02: < ShoesFest> G'day from Apple
20:02: < ShoesFest> I guess we're still waiting for the new build, eh?
20:03: < st23am> k rake runs good now
20:05: < ejmiller> eki_: your sprite demo is really nice - any thoughts on how the contents of the sprite itself might be animated?
20:08: < _why> here we go
20:08: < _why> so this is the planet of shoesfest
20:09: < tamalw> Hola ShoesFest & _why
20:09: < _why> apologies around the house for my tardiness
20:09: < ashbb> Hi! We are all waiting for you!
20:10: * _why pats ashbb on the head and feeds him an open-faced shark sandwich
20:10: < ejmiller> _why: no prob
20:10: < _why> just a moment, going to sync all my latest changes to github
20:11: < _why> stellar attendance today, folks
20:12: < danielz> Hi _why
20:13: < _why> okay, now to get you some builds
20:13: < _why> hi danielz, have you been welcomed to shoes day?
20:13: < _why> cause i can do that right here if you haven't
20:13: < maplealmond> Today is shoes day? Cool.
20:13: < danielz> I have not
20:13: < maplealmond> I guess this is a good day to start using shoes
20:14: < _why> most grievous, danielz
20:14: < danielz> :)
20:14: < _why> now, let's see where was i
20:14: < _why> oh yes, welcome to shoes day, danielz
20:15: < _why> and a very shoesy day to the rest of you sordid lot
20:15: < danielz> Thanks man i appreciate it
20:15: < _why> okay, anyone who's going to be testing today, let's hear what platforms you're on so i can get you guys builds first
20:16: < ejmiller> I wish every day could be shoes day
20:16: < danielz> I just learned of shoes today actually. There is a link on Reddit
20:16: < ejmiller> Ubuntu 8.04
20:16: < tamalw> OS X intel
20:16: < danielz> Seems like an awesome app
20:16: < kuremmu> *yuck!* windows xp
20:16: < _why> yes well shoes is very young and obscure, so i'm certainly surprised you have heard of it all
20:17: < danielz> I'm a young and obscure guy
20:17: < ashbb> I'm using WindowsXP, too.
20:17: < maplealmond> I'm using it with OSX
20:17: < ejmiller> I'm pulling from git and will try to build
20:17: < _why> we're going to hit the one-year birthday of shoes on the last day of this month, so we're readying a very good release
20:17: < ixx> _why: actually i have been seeing shoes posts everywhere
20:18: < maplealmond> I heard about it from ages ago, but finally decided to try it after needing to code a desktop app.
20:18: < danielz> ya know what would rock. Shoes support on the iphone :)
20:18: < ChrisColon> (hi ^^) Intel Mac, Leopard and later today when I get sleepy I'm switching to my PPC iBook
20:18: < st23am> is anyone saving a log of todays shoefest?
20:18: < _why> ixx, we try to abstain from lying on shoes day, but i appreciate what you're saying
20:18: < _why> shoes on the iphone would be tough because of ruby's memory requirements
20:19: < _why> also, pango doesn't port to iphone
20:19: < danielz> ah too bad
20:19: < cacimar> I'm adding to the text of an edit_line - how do I indicate I want a line feed?
20:19: < _why> but i am trying to build a pango-less shoes for the iphone, it's worth trying at least
20:19: < tamalw> Greetings DrErnie
20:19: < ixx> _why: heh. well it has been coming up with topics around me at least... People looking at monkeybars (with jruby) and other solutions
20:20: < ixx> I dig the direction shoes is going
20:21: < _why> oh thankyou, ixx, well, i'm glad to have your input today on this
20:21: < DrErnie> Has anyone tried the new TextMate bundle for Shoes?
20:21: < _why> okay, let's get a windows build pronto
20:22: < ejmiller> I was able to build r873 from git on Ubuntu 8.04
20:23: < kuremmu> _why, are you planning updated versions of nks and entirety?
20:24: < ixx> _why: hd moore was putting a bunch of work on the ruby iphone stuff for metasploit... I think shoes could have some thing up though it may use something other than pango as you say
20:25: < ChrisColon> DrErnie: The Shoes bundle from jballanc on Github? I downloaded that today
20:26: < DrErnie> ChrisColon: yeah, that. jballanc just walked in, so I'm sure he'd love feedback
20:28: < ChrisColon> It's great ^^ Really helpful, especially Command+R :) And you can use the bundle menu in textmate for a quick overview of what Shoes can do when you don't want to browse through the manual
20:29: < tamalw> It would be great if command-R didn't invoke the Ruby or Shoes menu when working on non-Shoes scripts
20:29: < ChrisColon> I don't think the new version does that anymore
20:29: < ChrisColon> I got that with the old version
20:29: < tamalw> \:D/ I'll update then!
20:30: < _why> (win32+video) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873.exe
20:30: < _why> (win32 novideo) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873-novideo.exe
20:30: < ashbb> Thx. I'll download it now.
20:31: < st23am> any shoes emacs love ?
20:32: < ixx> wow.. shoes app froze when having issue resolving in dns
20:32: < ixx> this was on the funnies.rb app btw
20:33: < ixx> thought it was in some code I was doing apparently not
20:33: < ixx> resolve-replace.rb
20:35: < jballanc> Hey all...
20:35: < ashbb> _why: Do you know anteaya?
20:35: < ashbb> _why: She joined rubyfringe and interviewed some Rubyists.
20:35: < jballanc> so for those looking at the TextMate bundle, I'm sure you've noticed the lack of templates
20:35: < optikalmouse> st23am: what are you looking for in particular?
20:35: < ashbb> _why: She would love to interview you.
20:36: < st23am> optikalmouse just curious if anyone had put a shoes.el together
20:36: < _why> that's very likely, ixx, i just rewrote all of the remote image code this week, so there's going to be quite a bit of debugging that today
20:36: < ashbb> _why: We want to read her article about you!
20:36: < anteaya> yes, i would love to interview you _why
20:36: < anteaya> i didn't want to interrupt shoesfest though
20:36: < optikalmouse> st23am: I wouldn't think so. Wouldn't it just basically be ruby-mode.el? Maybe with some Snippets?
20:37: < _why> (osx novideo) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873-novideo.dmg
20:37: < st23am> optikalmouse: most likely maybe some snippets or somethign.
20:37: < _why> (osx video) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873.dmg
20:37: < _why> those are intel builds, incidentally
20:37: < optikalmouse> st23am: which snippet package do you use?
20:37: < ChrisColon> jballanc: The one template there is was funny though. Shoes.app do end :)
20:38: < jballanc> Yeah...so I guess one of the first priorities is to provide a few more interesting templates
20:38: < jballanc> Tieg has recommended one with a Shoes.setup block...which I also agree would be good
20:38: < tamalw> There has got to be an better way to do this: http://gist.github.com/2490 with the formatting not being messed up
20:38: < _why> hi, anteaya, welcome to shoes day 2
20:38: < optikalmouse> if you think of any interesting TextMate templates I can convert them to use the Emacs YASnippets stuffs
20:38: < anteaya> thank you _w
20:38: < anteaya> _why,
20:38: < anteaya> c'mon tab
20:39: < anteaya> sorry i missed shoes day 1
20:39: < anteaya> was rubyfringing
20:39: < anteaya> looks like a good crowd today
20:41: < ChrisColon> jballanc: maybe you could also add all available styles in the shoes.app() parantheses, it's better to delete stuff when you don't need it instead of writing it from scratch I think and usually you want to change the size of the window for example anyhow
20:41: < ixx> i am confused about the dns stuff ... it was working fine earlier
20:41: < ixx> and i can do lookups on the domains from the command line
20:42: < jballanc> Yeah...there was a bit of discussion with the parens in the snippets
20:42: < jballanc> I took them out of places where they didn't seem necessary, and left them in other places
20:43: < jballanc> so, for example, oval is still "oval(X, Y, WIDTH, HEIGHT)"
20:43: < _why> ixx, you have a paste of that script around?
20:44: < jballanc> but button is "button 'text', [styles]"
20:44: < ixx> http://shoes.yapok.org/apps/funnies.rb
20:44: < jballanc> and the styles are optional
20:44: < _why> kuremmu oh forgot to say YES, i know :radius is wrong at least (needs tobe :curve)
20:44: < ixx> that is from tamalw
20:45: < jballanc> I guess we could do a progression of templates...simple app to get started, app with window size, app with setup block, etc...
20:45: < ChrisColon> yeah that would be the most convenient thing
20:47: < DrErnie> Our pizza just arrived. Wish y'all could come share it with us :-)
20:49: < _why> (osx powerpc novideo) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873-ppc-novideo.dmg
20:49: < _why> (linux i686 novideo) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873.run
20:50: < ashbb> DrErnie: Wow, thx. :)
20:50: < _why> and lastly
20:50: < _why> (source) http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r873.tar.gz
20:50: < optikalmouse> jballanc: link is a good one for a template since you have click or a block
20:51: < ChrisColon> Is threaded image downloading already built into this new build of Shoes or does it take longer to implement?
20:51: < _why> yep, it's all ready to go, cc
20:51: < _why> both threaded image downloading and the new threaded `download` method
20:51: < _why> these use real system threads, not ruby green threads
20:51: < ChrisColon> Do I have to do something special instead of just using image("http://blabla.com/image.jpg")? Because it isn't working for me
20:52: < ChrisColon> oh wait!
20:52: < ChrisColon> my fault
20:52: < ChrisColon> In my unholy stupidity I used the old build :)
20:52: < _why> it's not yet completely efficient and foolproof, i hope we'll uncover a wealth of bugs regarding that feature
20:54: < _why> it works similar to many browsers, placing a blank image where the remote image would go until it's loaded, then firing a repaint when the full image is swapped in
20:54: < jballanc> optikalmouse: how would that look? Maybe an independent "class MyStuff < Shoes" with a "url '/' :method"?
20:55: < ChrisColon> But it does work ^^ It even solved the crash in my Flickr picture guess game :)
20:55: < optikalmouse> jballanc: "link($1, :click => "$2")" something like that?
20:55: < ChrisColon> Thanks a lot for this, it's reeeeaally appreciated
20:55: < jballanc> ahh...snippets...
20:55: < jballanc> got it
20:56: < jballanc> I was thinking templates
20:56: < optikalmouse> OH I see what you mean
20:56: < optikalmouse> templates to get an app started, ja?
20:56: < jballanc> Right...I mean, app templates are well and good
20:56: < ixx> _why: the new resolver stuff is ready to test?>
20:56: < jballanc> but if we're going to make really big things, we'll want to separate our code into individual files, yes?
20:57: < ChrisColon> Blank images I don
20:57: < ChrisColon> don
20:57: < ChrisColon> damn, my fingers hit the enter key before I'm finished writing. Too much coffe
20:58: < ChrisColon> The blank images I can't see but that could be because I load just tiny images, maybe 2 or 3kb in size
20:58: * wmoxam tries on a new pair of shoes
20:59: < brainopia> _why: can you explain me behavior of second example at http://gist.github.com/2431 - is it expected or bug?
20:59: < jballanc> hmm...what we really need is a way to switch between the parenthesized and un-parenthesized versions
20:59: < eki_> ejmiller, oops, I drifted off into programming... I don't think I'll get into framed animation today... I'm mostly working on movement, collision detection for now...
21:00: < brainopia> we had a little chat about this before you came in and couldn't decide
21:00: < _why> all builds now listed here: http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/shoes/wiki/RecentBuilds
21:01: < ejmiller> eki_: no prob - working myself
21:01: < ejmiller> eki_: pardon my ignorance - framed animation is animating an animation?
21:02: < _why> brainopia: that's a bug, tho i'm not sure it'll be fixed by the next release
21:02: < anteaya> _why can we get that link in the channel topic so that latecomers can find it when the backscroll is devoured?
21:02: < _why> it's because slots that have a fixed :width and :height become subwindows and paint over their parent
21:03: < brainopia> _why: and over their cheldren?
21:03: < brainopia> chidlren*
21:03: < brainopia> children*
21:03: < brainopia> sorry for typos =(
21:03: <@_why> in the second example, the entire window should be black
21:04: < brainopia> _why: oh, i see
21:04: <@_why> elements are ordered from top to bottom
21:04: < st23am> just curious why no video in linux?
21:04: <@_why> so the white background is acting properly, but the black one isn't because i've got to do a bit of window merging trickery
21:04: < brainopia> _why: so background is painted on top
21:04: <@_why> st23am you'll need to download the tarball and build it with `make VIDEO=1`
21:05: <@_why> eventually, the .run will have video i imagine
21:05: < st23am> _why: excellent thanks
21:05: <@_why> brainopia yeah backgrounds are just elements, that way you can stack lots of backgrounds and borders for effect
21:05: < brainopia> _why: thx for explanation
21:06: < eki_> ejmiller: yeah, by that I just meant flipping through pre-rendered frames of animation...
21:06: <@_why> http://hackety.org/2007/08/09/pictureShoes.html mentions a bit more about that
21:06: <@_why> okay, ixx, going to investigate that script
21:06: < ejmiller> eki_: cool - mind if I play around with that sprite widget?
21:07: < brainopia> _why: i have another question, is it possible to change a color of an existing rectangle or i need to draw a new one on top of the old?
21:08: <@_why> you'll have to redraw
21:09: <@_why> but i've put that down on my bloodred legal pad
21:09: <@_why> "Shape.fill= and Shape.stroke="
21:09: <@_why> so it should be addressed today
21:10: < brainopia> ok, thx again
21:10: < kuremmu> been trying snippets, samples and stuff from the-shoebox on winxp. no surprises yet. breakthrough still won't load vying-pure (shy or github version)
21:12: < ChrisColon> _why: When images are still downloading and you close the window, Shoes crashes. And image placement is off when I display a lot of tiny thumbnails in a flow while they are still loading. When everything is finished loading, the placement is okay, other than that I wasn't able to find any errors, it's really cool :)
21:13: <@_why> is that osx, ChrisColon?
21:13: < ChrisColon> Yeah
21:13: <@_why> yeah i need to cancel downloads when the window is closed, good one
21:13: < gdp> linux Ubutu: what is the meaning of errors while compiling
21:13: < gdp> CC -o dist/shoes-bin dist/libshoes.so: undefined reference to `shoes_http_error'
21:14: <@_why> ixx: that script works on linux, remind me of your platform
21:15: < ixx> os x, leopard 10.5.4, ruby 1.8
21:15: < eki_> ejmiller: I don't mind at all, have at it : ))
21:15: < ixx> what is strange is it was working fine earlier... not sure what is happening
21:15: < eki_> ejmiller: I'm getting close to working gravity now...
21:15: <@_why> ah, ok, gdp missing something in the makefile
21:16: < ejmiller> eki_: going for a full physics model?
21:17: < eki_> ejmiller: not too detailed, just "game" physics : ))
21:18: < eki_> kuremmu: Did you try the updated shy for breakthrough? I got it to load vying-pure.gem on vista last night
21:19: < ixx> going to grab a bite to eat.. bbiab
21:21: <@_why> gdp: http://hacketyhack.net/pkg/dist/shoes/shoes-0.r874.tar.gz
21:22: < gdp> _why thanks , i will try
21:22: < ejmiller> eki_:looking forward to seeing it
21:26: <@_why> oh and samples/simple-downloader.rb is new, friends
21:26: < kuremmu> brainopia, _why when you add another rectangle after teh background in that buggy snippet, the second rectangle appears. if you add another background before the first rectangle too, the second rectangle still appears. apparently, background is a synonym for rectangle currently and just appears where it is invoked _why?
21:26: <@_why> it's a sample of how to use the downloader to save files and track progress
21:28: <@_why> kuremmu, yes, in a way background is synonymous with rectangle, just has different syntax and is a tiling element rather than a positioned element
21:28: < ashbb> eki_: I tried to run your breakthrough.shy (0.5.1) on WindwosXP. It works well. I can see chess board window!
21:28: <@_why> you might look at samples/simple-form.rb to see a layer set of backgrounds
21:29: < kuremmu> eki i pulled a fresh copy from the-shoebox after i installed the new build a few minutes ago and tried it. also pulled a fresh git copy
21:30: < ejmiller> _why: tried out samples/simple-downloader.rb - nice!
21:30: < eki_> ashbb, does the computer make it's opening move? If not try ALT-D (to trigger a redraw), when I played with it last night animation wasn't working on windows (worked fine on linux)
21:30: < optikalmouse> you know what's missing from shoes? keyboard events of some sort :S
21:31: < optikalmouse> specifically, the definr example doesn't react when I press enter after entering a search term
21:33: <@_why> that's a good point
21:33: <@_why> i need some logic for figuring out the default button on a page
21:33: < ChrisColon> optikalmouse: there are keyboard events in shoes, but they don''t work when an edit_line is selected, at least on osx, copy and paste doesn't work either because of that
21:35: < optikalmouse> ChrisColon: that's weird. I would think it would take more work/code to disable copy/paste keys? hmm
21:37: < ChrisColon> I worked around it by adding a paste button to my apps which uses the Shoes clipboard function :)
21:37: < kuremmu> ashbb? do you by chance have the latest xp servicepack? i'm still on the last one pre-vista. perhaps that explains the discrepancy
21:39: < ashbb> kuremmu: Microsoft Windwos XP Professional Version 2002 Service Pack 2
21:39: < optikalmouse> ChrisColon: that's really strange because copy/paste works for me in Linux/GTK :o
21:40: < ashbb> eki_: opening move doesn't work, but alt-d works well.
21:41: < eki_> ashbb, okay thanks. That's what I was afraid of. the animation code is somehow broken on windows... I'll have to debug it later
21:41: < ChrisColon> optikalmouse: The osx version uses Cocoa instead of GTK, so the bug is somewhere in that code I think
21:41: < ashbb> eki_: I move white one, then nothing happen. but I do alt-d then move black one.
21:41: < gdp> _why: shoes -v gives
21:44: < jballanc> Hey, is hungry_boids giving others problems on the newest build?
21:46: < jballanc> I have to move the "Shoes.app" block to the end to get it to work...
21:46: < jballanc> (That's the bug I mailed to the list earlier...maybe not a bug?)
21:48: < jballanc> oh, hey...when did that happen...there's a newer version of boids
21:50: < jballanc> _why: Is it expected that the "Shoes.app" block should go at the end? I realize this is an issue on OS X, but I feel like it might be a bug...maybe even one we could fix
21:50: < gdp> why shoes -v gives /usr/local/lib/shoes/ruby/lib/optparse.rb:873: [BUG] Segmentation fault
21:51: < gdp> ruby 1.8.6 (2008-03-03) [i686-linux]
21:52: <@_why> have you installed shoes as a deb before?
21:52: < gdp> no
21:52: < gdp> i have compiled earlier r811
21:53: < gdp> and it was working
21:54: <@_why> it appears that there might be a problem with 1.8.6, i'll try building on a fresh ubuntu
21:55: <@_why> jballanc you should be able to put Shoes.app anywhere i think
21:55: < jballanc> Right...that doesn't seem to be working on OS X
21:55: <@_why> okay, i'll check it out
21:55: < anteaya> gdp: i am following the process, though I can't play along right now, when you and _why find a build that works, would you be so kind to ping me so I can get the build as well?
21:56: < anteaya> gdp: sorry i can't be more active but the deadline, she looms
21:57: < jballanc> If it's any help, I think there's something to do with shoes_load() being called from main, and then again from either "application: openFile:" or "openFile"
21:58: <@_why> ohh i think you're right jballanc, some one brought this up on the list or something
21:58: < xeugenex> hey, i'm trying to compile shoes on a mac
21:59: < xeugenex> i heard that there are some prebuilt dependencies
21:59: < gdp> anteaya ok
21:59: < xeugenex> where would those be
21:59: < xeugenex> right now it's stopping where it needs -lgif
22:01: < ChrisColon> xeugenex: http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/shoes/wiki/BuildingShoes they are in the table
22:01: < ChrisColon> building on osx didn't work for me when I tried a few hours ago though, I don't know if it's working again
22:01: < ChrisColon> Yesterday it was working allright
22:03: < xeugenex> thanks
22:03: < ChrisColon> np
22:05: < jballanc> _why: that would be me
22:12: < ashbb> Damn my windows crashed. Now rejoined.
22:13: < gdp> anteaya : It is 13.30 hrs here for me. I have to sleep , bye
22:14: < jballanc> hmmm...what's the #define if I want OS X specific code?
22:14: < anteaya> gdp: thank you and good night
22:14: < ashbb> gdp: night. see you tomorrow :)
22:14: < jballanc> is it just #ifdef SHOES_QUARTZ
22:15: < anteaya> ashbb: okay, ping me when _why posts something for linux and I will take a minute and start it up
22:15: < anteaya> ashbb, please
22:15: < ashbb> okay!
22:20: < ChrisColon> _why: Shoes also crashes when images are downloading inside a stack and you clear it, maybe there should be a method that stops all download threads?
22:22: < kuremmu> is there doc somewhere on widgets or do i need to grovel the source?
22:27: < ashbb> kuremmu: http://hackety.org/2008/06/12/martinDemellosGooeyChallenge.html
22:28: < ashbb> kuremmu: I have not read yet, though... :-P
22:32: <@_why> ChrisColon there's a cancel method for stopping an individual download
22:32: <@_why> so what i'm doing in this next build is stopping the download when its `remove` method is called as well
22:32: < ChrisColon> that's even better :)
22:32: <@_why> this will cover `clear` and the window closing any cases like that
22:35: < kuremmu> yet another wincrash
22:36: <@_why> tell me, related to images, kuremmu?
22:37: < kuremmu> no, just windows + firefox = fail sometimes
22:38: < kuremmu> i was trying to access my flicker stream for testing purposes, but i hadn't started teh shoes part yet
22:42: < jballanc> hmmm...ok...that wasn't it...
22:42: < jballanc> So, _why, I tried having Shoes not call shoes_load until it actually has the name of a script on OS X...
22:42: < jballanc> ...but the hungry_boids still don't work
23:13: < DrErnie> Yeah! I finally got TankSpank working with the latest Shoes
23:13: < DrErnie> Please help test it: http://s3.amazonaws.com:/shoes_code/public/versions/104/tankspank_v5.2.rb
23:14: < DrErnie> Warning: it is dog slow (prob'ly due to all the fancy drawin), but at least it doesn't crash :-P
23:15: < ChrisColon> wow, that *is* slow :)
23:15: < ChrisColon> it was so fast before
23:16: < DrErnie> ChrisColon: yeah, I know. He had nice linear code, I made it all fancy math and object-oriented :-(
23:16: < DrErnie> Plus, to be fair, I have enemy tanks and bullets and such, but clearly I'm doing something several sub-optimal
23:17: < ChrisColon> I managed to get two tanks stuck together on my first try. I'm good :)
23:17: < DrErnie> I'm not even sure how to Profile it, to figure out where the slowdown is coming fron
23:17: < GitHub73> shoes: _why master SHA1-e559340
23:17: < GitHub73> * shoes/ruby.c: store stroke and fill of shape in the style.
23:17: < GitHub73> http://github.com/why/shoes/commit/e559340c3534ee8303d85ae8183b130ba90ed287
23:17: <@_why> okay i guess brainopia left
23:18: < ChrisColon> hmm yeah the only thing I could think of would be slicing it in parts and trying them seperatly
23:18: <@_why> but his Shape.fill= and Shape.stroke= fix is in
23:18: < DrErnie> _why: hmm, maybe I can use that
23:30: < eki_> how does a fella change the direction an 'arrow' is pointing?
23:31: < paulv> I found a bug of sorts with stacks and flows that cause the X server to use 100% CPU. I'm probably doing something wrong (and in fact have a different version that works correctly), but I thought it might be symptomatic of something else? http://pastie.org/241342
23:33: < loincloth> is there a list of, say, bugs specifically in the ruby sources?
23:33: < loincloth> i'd like to try and help but i am not so savvy with C
23:34: < loincloth> i'm willing to learn, but like my rubies too :]
23:37: < ixx> _why: did you figure out what the resolver issue was?
23:38: < st23am> ok beginner here. What am I doing wrong text doesnt show up http://pastie.caboo.se/paste/241351
23:40: < ChrisColon> st23am: use @mytext instead of mytext, that changes the scope of the variable
23:40: < st23am> ah
23:40: < st23am> should have known that I know ruby better than that :P
23:41: < ChrisColon> ^^
23:41: < st23am> so mytext only had scope of local in stack right?
23:42: < st23am> ChrisColon: tryed @mytext still nothing
23:43: < anteaya> _why, I have brainopia's email, Is there anything you want him to know?
23:43: < ChrisColon> The scope is a bit tricky sometimes, I think if you declared mytext in a parent stack and then tried to use mytext.replace it would have worked, too. So I don't think the variables are really limited to a stack
23:43: < ChrisColon> Oh, I try it out, just a sec ^^
23:44: < st23am> ChrisColon: ya my "text_field" doesnt even show
23:44: < ChrisColon> change text to para then it works
23:45: < st23am> ah did that change? reading older tutorial
23:45: < ChrisColon> mytext = para "text field"
23:45: < ChrisColon> seems so, text isn't anywhere in the manual
23:45: < st23am> ChrisColon: that fixed it.
23:46: < st23am> ChrisColon: looking at http://hackety.org/2007/08/06/yeahShoesHasJustAFewSimpleControls.html
23:47: < ChrisColon> st23am: better look at the manual and the samples that come with shoes, this post is really old.
23:47: < st23am> ChrisColon: will do thanks
23:47: < ChrisColon> the samples are probably best because they show you all the current stuff, the manual sometimes lacks behind but it is pretty current too
23:48: < loincloth> the manual search feature is essential, but can be tricky if you dont know what to search for
23:48: < jonty_> Hi just testing the samples in shoes 811 windows xp - simple-accordion doesn't work properly, the shutters slide up but not all the way and then stick eventually you just have 0.0, it used to work! can't spot why...
23:48: < loincloth> some stuff isn't surfaced through the menu
23:49: < ChrisColon> I don't use the search often. Or the manual :) I didn't even take a look at the samples. I just do everything by trial and error, that's probably why my apps are crashing so often :) I just started writing a bunch of apps after browsing through the manual for 10 minutes
23:51: < st23am> Can you include ruby modules into a shoes app ?
23:51: < ChrisColon> sure, just do your usual require. If you want to include a gem, you can do that too. Look at the simple-rubygem example
23:52: < st23am> thanks
23:52: < ChrisColon> np
00:03: < DrErnie> A much better TankSpank: http://s3.amazonaws.com:/shoes_code/public/versions/105/tankspank_v5.3.rb
00:03: < DrErnie> Well, somewhat better :-P
00:04: < DrErnie> _why: is there any way to measure how many frames per second I'm *actually* getting, vs. what I'm asking "animate" for?
00:08: < ChrisColon> it's about twice as fast now I think
00:08: < DrErnie> ChrisColon: I just changed frames per second to 20 from 10 :-)
00:09: < DrErnie> I fear it will slow down more if there's too many tanks on the screen, though
00:09: < DrErnie> Tweak FRAMES_PER_SECOND on your system and see what works well
00:09: < jballanc> Hmmm....
00:09: < ChrisColon> XD wow, then I am really good at estimating :)
00:09: < eki_> my sprite demo is starting to get a little more hairy... now includes gravity (which can be changed with ALT-i, ALT-j, ALT-k, ALT-l), the arrow keys give the sprite a little push... code here: http://github.com/eki/shoesfest/tree/master/sprite/sprite.rb
00:10: < jballanc> Ok...so I've added a new level of confusion to the OS X boids bug...
00:11: < jballanc> I just realized that if I put a "debug" message in right after the "Shoes.app" line, then the Shoes console reports the debug message as occurring at line 208
00:11: < jballanc> line 208 just happens to be the last line in the boids script
00:11: < jballanc> However, it still claims that there is no Shoes::Boids and reports this error on line 34
00:11: < loincloth> jballanc: i got info reporting from active supports inflector at times
00:11: < jballanc> which is the first place where Boids appears
00:11: < Bluebie> howdy doodads
00:12: < tamalw> Hiya Bluebie
00:12: < loincloth> but not always, which i found even more odd
00:12: < loincloth> for the same info call, being hit in an every loop
00:12: < jballanc> yeah, here's the weird thing
00:12: <@_why> DrErnie: you can compile with debugging `rake DEBUG=1` and it'll show timings for each paint
00:12: < jballanc> If I add "debug" lines to the beginning of the "Food" class and the "Boids" class, I still get those messages on the console
00:12: < jballanc> they print after the no Shoes::Boids error
00:13: <@_why> or you can just subtract Time instances
00:13: < jballanc> and they are reported as generating from line 34...same place as the no Shoes::Boids error
00:13: < loincloth> jballanc: are you going to be merging that other tmbundle project?
00:13: < DrErnie> _why: I tried using Time instances, but I got very inconsistent results; I think the actual drawing is what was taking up time, which was happening outside the "animate" loop
00:14: < jballanc> loincloth: which is that?
00:14: < loincloth> jballanc: http://github.com/tiegz/shoes-textmate-bundle/tree/master
00:14: <@_why> i'm sure the actual drawing is what's taking up time
00:15: < jballanc> oh, yeah...sorry, I already grabbed most of the snippets
00:15: <@_why> you're right, it happens in the window's RunLoop, not in the animate loop
00:15: < DrErnie> _why: ah, that's what I thought
00:15: < loincloth> jballanc: i'm using yours right now.. i made a change to the run in shoes command.. to reference SHOES_APP_PATH instead of listing Shoes.app which i think assumes that you are looking for it in the Applications dir
00:15: < jballanc> tweaked them a bit and put them in: http://github.com/jballanc/shoes.tmbundle/tree/master
00:15: < DrErnie> _why: so, would a debug build capture that, then?
00:15: < loincloth> jballanc: cool, was thinking i would clone your project but wasnt sure if you guys were planning a new one or what
00:15: < loincloth> so far i just wanted that one simple change tho
00:16: <@_why> yep, the debug info shows time elapsed painting each slot
00:16: <@_why> still have a lot of work to do speeding things up
00:16: < loincloth> so i could run shoes build from the git repo in my spot where i keep such things
00:16: <@_why> one of the biggest things that'll help tankspank is when i go to town on image blocks
00:16: < jballanc> Is the current "Run in Shoes" not working for you?
00:17: < loincloth> jballanc: it doesn't work if you have Shoes.app not in the Applications dir i think
00:17: < DrErnie> _why: I was also wondering whether I should draw my tanks into image blocks, then 'blit' them out
00:17: < loincloth> jballanc: if you use open -a Shoes.app
00:17: < loincloth> but open -a SHOES_APP_PATH works great
00:17: < jballanc> odd...I've got Shoes.app in ~/Source/shoes and it seems to work...
00:17: <@_why> i doubt you'll gain anything just yet doing it that way
00:17: < loincloth> jballanc: hmm maybe i dunno what i'm doing
00:18: <@_why> i can address that this week, doc, since it's just crystallized in my mind a few days ago
00:18: < paulv> _why: did you see my CPU utilization bug?
00:18: <@_why> but besides that, even drawing normal shapes needs to be faster
00:18: < ashbb> DrErnie: Wow! I got the message 'Congratulations! You totally r00l!'
00:18: <@_why> paulv i don't think i did
00:18: < paulv> I found a bug of sorts with stacks and flows that cause the X server to use 100% CPU. I'm probably doing something wrong (and in fact have a different version that works correctly), but I thought it might be symptomatic of something else? http://pastie.org/241342
00:19: < jballanc> loincloth: Where are you keeping your shoes? Is it somewhere below ~/ ?
00:19: < tamalw> woot woot, got my Shoes app to a somewhat complete state: http://gist.github.com/2538
00:19: < DrErnie> ashbb: Congratulations :-)
00:19: < loincloth> jballanc: yeah, and i changed the command back to reference Shoes.app now and it seems to work fine
00:19: < tamalw> Little hackish in some places
00:19: < loincloth> jballanc: i dunno what happened to me before :\
00:20: < ashbb> DrErnie: Thx. Your tank app is awesome! :)
00:20: <@_why> paulv with 0.r873 even?
00:20: < DrErnie> _why: Okay, let me know when (and how) I should refactor my drawing.
00:20: < DrErnie> I think I'll declare victory on that note. Enjoy! You can always grab the latest version of TankSpank from: http://the-shoebox.org/apps/43
00:20: <@_why> i will probably try to see what i can do to just speed up what you've got first of all, dr e
00:21: < DrErnie> thanks
00:21: < DrErnie> bye
00:22: <@_why> paulv: oh i see the shoes process is fine but x starts to go crazy
00:23: < paulv> hmm, 0.r873 doesn't build for me, but a git checkout from a few seconds ago builds fine. it does go to 100% with the git build.
00:25: < Bluebie> @_why: What's the rationale for having ppc and intel builds instead of one universal?
00:27: < Bluebie> Wow, what made tankspank so slow o_o
00:27: <@_why> just because the universal ends up huge
00:27: <@_why> the stub is universal
00:27: < Bluebie> ooh okie
00:27: <@_why> the net installer stub
00:28: < st23am> think I asked this earlier but, is someone going to post a log up of shoesfest? Going home and wont be able to join in in an hour :(
00:28: < Bluebie> so someone brainy could grab the ppc novideo and the intel novideo and concievably mash the binaries up together if they wanted
00:28: <@_why> i think MadX` acts as scribe
00:28: < ChrisColon> Bluebie: DrErnie said it's because of him adding fancy math and making the code object-oriented :)
00:28: < Bluebie> I'll be having to leave too for most of the day :(
00:28: < Bluebie> ooooh
00:29: < tamalw> :(
00:29: < tamalw> Bluebie: Check out the app I just finished http://gist.github.com/2538
00:29: < ChrisColon> st23am: http://shoes.yapok.org/ has the logs for ShoesFest 1, so I'm sure it will have the logs for this ShoesFest too
00:29: < st23am> got a D&D game to run :P (dorky I know but fun )
00:29: < Bluebie> seems odd that oop would have such an effect given that pretty much everything in ruby is oopy to begin with, or at least maintains the illusion
00:30: < st23am> ChrisColon: awesome thanks
00:30: < ChrisColon> np
00:31: < Bluebie> tamalw: what's this? twitter search? :)
00:32: < tamalw> basically, it searches on your keywords and updates every 10 seconds
00:32: <@_why> okay great
00:32: < Bluebie> :)
00:32: < ChrisColon> tamalw: I did something like that a while ago ^^ Good luck with it, there can never be enough twitter search apps! NEVER. Well, maybe in a few years.
00:32: <@_why> paulv, the expose events on gtk are recursing in that script
00:35: < ashbb> tamalw: Wow, I'm now coding my tiny twitter seach, too. :)
00:37: < Bluebie> _why: alert() still doesn't seem to do anything under OS-X
00:37: < paulv> _why: is there a reasonable fix for that?
00:39: < Bluebie> Shoes has gotten shockingly slow, even in the manual. Confusing
00:39: < tamalw> Bluebie: alert() was working for me on r873
00:39: < loincloth> alert/ask both seem disabled for me
00:39: < loincloth> os x also
00:39: < tamalw> ashbb: call it the teenie-tiny-twitter-tweet-tumbler
00:39: < Bluebie> I'm on 873 and tried the 'Run Code' button in the manual's example alert..
00:40: <@_why> it's true, shoes day really snuck up on me, so we're testing with a pretty unstable build today
00:40: < Bluebie> the manual sure is looking a lot better now though :)
00:40: < loincloth> hey so i saw that another twitter client app does this to trigger submitting a new status on enter: if @i_say.text[-1] == ?\n ... i must say i couldn't figure out how to do it with keypress.. odd that hitting enter seems to select all the text in the box, at least on os x
00:40: < loincloth> anyway is that about the way to do it?
00:40: < loincloth> if i wanted enter on a input field to trigger basically clicking a button or some other element?
00:41: < ashbb> tamalw: Oh pretty good! We are teenie-tiny-twitter-tweet-tumblers! Yay!
00:41: < Bluebie> still I think for these apps to feel right on OS-X the scrolling really needs to work properly.. making it overall slower has made things less painful, but any scrolling that has much speed to it causes mac os scrolling acceleration to kick in and really mess things up :/
00:41: < tamalw> Bluebie: http://skitch.com/tamalw/t3t6/bluebie
00:41: < Bluebie> neat :)
00:44: < ashbb> _why: Shoes manual say: oval(top, left, radius)
00:44: < ashbb> _why: but in the case of http://pastie.org/241093 radius = 50, not 100
00:44: < ashbb> _why: So maybe bug. Which is correct, I don't know, though.... :)
00:45: < ashbb> _why: eki_ and I discussed before you came in.
00:45: < loincloth> weird. i guess the "if edit_line.text == ?\n" trick only works if it's actually an edit_box
00:48: < Bluebie> Richard Stallman really can't sing
00:48: < ashbb> Really?
00:48: < optikalmouse> blasphemer!
00:49: < optikalmouse> :p
00:49: < Bluebie> http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.au
00:49: < eki_> ashbb, I think I saw somewhere that oval actually takes left, top, width, height (or at least width)... not sure where I saw that though...
00:49: < eki_> it's already been a long day I guess : ))
00:50: < eki_> I think maybe oval taking width, height makes more sense than radius... it seems more consistent with the rest of the shapes
00:51: < ashbb> Oh, I'll check built-in manual from now.
01:00: < Bluebie> okay, cya guys
01:00: < ChrisColon> bye
01:00: < Bluebie> good luck with legs MadX` ^_^
01:00: < EmanuelC> bye Bluebie, hi everyone else :)
01:01: < ashbb> bfn :)
01:02: < ashbb> eki_: Builtin manual is written: To draw an oval of varied porportions, you may also use the syntax: oval(top, left, width, high).
01:03: < ashbb> eki_: So I totally agree your opinion.
01:10: < loincloth> focus() does not seem to work for edit_line or edit_box for me
01:11: < eki_> ashbb, ah that must be where I saw it, I wonder if I just confused 'oval x, y, w, h' with 'oval :left => x, :top => y, :radius => r'...
01:15: < EmanuelC> guys, anyone on mac this eve? I want to check if you have a bug..
01:15: < ashbb> eki_: Yeah. Maybe _why will rewrite the part of the builtin manual soon.
01:16: < ChrisColon> EmanuelC: I'm on Mac
01:17: < EmanuelC> ChrisColon, could you try going to the manual and do a search?
01:17: < EmanuelC> put oval since everyone is talking about it :P
01:17: < ChrisColon> I did
01:18: < ChrisColon> what should I be looking for?
01:19: < EmanuelC> oh, does it work?
01:19: < ChrisColon> Yep, works fine :)
01:19: < EmanuelC> 'cause mine doesn't yield any results...
01:19: < EmanuelC> which version do you have?
01:19: < ChrisColon> hmm. any error in the Shoes console?
01:20: < EmanuelC> yep
01:21: < EmanuelC> oh, cannot do cut and paste
01:21: < ChrisColon> That I can
01:21: < ChrisColon> can't
01:21: < ChrisColon> do either
01:21: < ChrisColon> damn I'm hitting the enter key to soon again
01:21: < EmanuelC> it says Bignum too big to convert into long
01:21: < EmanuelC> and then "comparison of String with nil failed"
01:22: < ChrisColon> Are you on PPC mac?
01:22: < EmanuelC> yep
01:22: < EmanuelC> u intel?
01:22: < ChrisColon> hmm wait I sec, I will try on my PPC iBook
01:22: < ChrisColon> yeah
01:22: < ChrisColon> just a minute
01:22: < EmanuelC> I was the one always bothering why for a PPC version
01:22: < EmanuelC> :)
01:23: < ChrisColon> ^^
01:25: < ChrisColon> Do you have the link to the PPC build handy by any chance? I just downloaded intel
01:25: < EmanuelC> mine is self compiled
01:25: < ChrisColon> my ibook would die if I did that
01:25: < EmanuelC> wait a sec
01:26: < EmanuelC> hehehe, I'm so happy since I can compile
01:26: < EmanuelC> I can try stuff and debug things :)
01:26: < EmanuelC> but you are on intel, so everything is ok ;)
01:27: < ChrisColon> found the link
01:27: < EmanuelC> good, I was looking for it, but you been faster
01:27: < ChrisColon> I did a search on the irc log :)
01:28: < st23am> later everyone merry Shoesfest
01:29: < ChrisColon> bye st23am
01:30: < ChrisColon> 2 minutes downloading left, my ibook is fighting my desktop for bandwidth :)
01:32: < EmanuelC> good! let them earn what they need! ;)
01:34: < ChrisColon> okay, same error as you. no search results and "bignum to big to convert into 'long'"
01:35: < ChrisColon> It'd probably got to do with the PPC using big endian stuff
01:35: < ChrisColon> That would explain why it works on intel mac
01:35: < EmanuelC> thanks.
01:35: < EmanuelC> unfortunately it seems it'S ruby lib prob, isn't?
01:36: < EmanuelC> I'll start looking into it though
01:38: < loincloth> _why: what say you to :margin => [0,0,0,0] being significant like CSS i.e. go in the order of top, right, bottom, left ?
01:39: < ChrisColon> EmanuelC: I don't have a clue ^^
01:39: < loincloth> _why: i keep assuming it and having moments of "oh right" and then changing code around. seems like it would be a nice detail in light of other web inspired details.
01:41: <@_why> well, i think css is totally inconsistent
01:41: <@_why> i haven't found that ordering of coordinates in other things
01:41: < loincloth> o i c
01:42: <@_why> but i'm not averse to the idea, if it turns out that beginners have come to expect that
01:42: <@_why> anyway, i think that syntax will go away
01:42: < loincloth> it's not a horrible shift
01:42: <@_why> when i merge ruby 1.9
01:42: < loincloth> o, what would one do then?
01:42: < loincloth> for similar effect
01:42: <@_why> you'll see: {margin: {top: 0, left: 10}}
01:43: < loincloth> hmm
01:43: <@_why> remembering ordering is just flawed to begin with
01:43: < loincloth> hmm i dunno about that
01:44: < loincloth> it takes some learnin but.. ultimately i think i would rather see that then "top" "left" "right" and such over and over
01:44: < loincloth> could probably make a helper to hide some of that tho
01:45: <@_why> yeah the (x1, y1, x2, y2) syntax is so prevelant throughout shoes, it would be a difficult change
01:46: < ChrisColon> _why: are you aware that search in the manual isn't working on PPC mac? EmanuelC found that out and I tried it on my PPC mac just now and it doesn't work for me either. Throws a "bignum too big to convert into long" error in the Shoes console. I searched on the mailing list and nobody mentioned it there.
01:46: < loincloth> any plans to support :padding ?
01:47: < EmanuelC> _why, as far as I'm concerned, I'm ok with your solution, maybe is better to write it down to the manual really in caps though ;)
01:57: <@_why> ohh yeah the ppc problem with the manual is an endianness thing with the ftsearchrt extension
01:57: <@_why> good one guys!
02:00: < EmanuelC> _why, thanks! is it easy to fix?
02:01: < ChrisColon> why do they even use different systems? I "heard" that big endian is better than small endian, but why don't all PC's use big endian then? It can't cost that much more to built a processor with big endian
02:03: < ChrisColon> Well, maybe it does cost more, but I don't want that to be true, so it isn't. Prove me wrong and I will pout.
02:13: < loincloth> if i want something to change the background color of the top level slot, how can i target that slot explicitly?
02:13: < loincloth> i am having scoping problems with calling background with no receiver
02:13: < loincloth> when the behavior is initiated inside some other stack or flow
02:13: < loincloth> and i mean change it dyamically, the initial setting is easy of course
02:14: < eki_> have you tried parent?
02:14: < loincloth> eki_: no sir i'll look into it
02:14: < loincloth> maybe i can do @top = self at the start of the app block ?
02:14: < eki_> I don't know what parent returns at the top level (nil?).. but you should be able to walk to the root
02:15: < loincloth> seems like it'd be simpler to just have a ref to the top somewhere rather than figuring out how much to walk
02:17: < ChrisColon> loincloth: you can put your top slot into a variable. Like @top = stack { ... } and then you can refer to it by using @top. Is that what you want?
02:17: < loincloth> yeah sure
02:17: < loincloth> i was thinking to not have to add that superfluous stack just for this tho
02:17: < loincloth> @top = self
02:17: < loincloth> at the start of the app block
02:17: < EmanuelC> if you walk to the top using parent, the parent of the Shoes.app is nil
02:18: < ChrisColon> ah okay
02:18: < EmanuelC> (just checked)
02:18: < loincloth> EmanuelC: ok, good to know, thx
02:18: < eki_> if you're making a widget, walking is safer because you don't have to count on "@top" being set
02:19: < loincloth> hmm
02:19: < loincloth> maybe i don't even have the problem identified correctly
02:19: < ChrisColon> if @top = self doesn't work, self.contents[0] should be the top most slot
02:21: < eki_> not sure I follow that ChrisColon...
02:21: < loincloth> wouldn't contents suffer the same problem.. doesn't it work on the context of the executing block or some such?
02:22: < loincloth> i believe i have a reference to the top level.. but i am still seeing a flow one level deeper taking on the background setting
02:22: < ChrisColon> yeah you have to use @top = self.contents[0] right after Shoes.app do.
02:22: < loincloth> instead of retaining what i defined in its block
02:22: < loincloth> other nested slots are not having this problem, though
02:23: < eki_> ChrisColon: okay, but that wouldn't be the Shoes::App at the root, that'd be the first child of the root, right?
02:23: < ChrisColon> eki_: Yeah, I thought that is what he's looking for
02:24: < loincloth> no i want the top level slot, the main flow, if you will
02:24: < eki_> ChrisColon: aaah, okay, I thought he wanted the Shoes::App at the root... misunderstanding
02:24: < ChrisColon> the first child should be the main flow
02:25: < ChrisColon> I have a lot of trouble with flows, they don't layout correctly even if I use more than necessary.
02:25: < ChrisColon> they sometimes behave like flows, sometimes like stacks. Really weird.
02:25: < eki_> loincloth, the app I'm working on has a widget that wants to interact with surrounding stacks, flows, shapes, whatever...
02:26: < eki_> I'm using parent and contents (and added a siblings method), it's a little more portable this way, because my widget can be included in any app without any special setup on the part of the app author...
02:27: < loincloth> sure
02:27: < eki_> but if you're doing a one-time sort of thing, there's nothing wrong with setting "@top" right away! : ))
02:27: < loincloth> i don't really need that yet but it might be good design influence
02:27: < loincloth> if you have anythi